This topic contains 6 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  McChuck 4 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #15063

    McChuck
    Participant

    1. The Henrys, who live near Stout’s and the place where the wire popped up have nothing to do with the wire or cattle. Their combative reactions to our communications relate more to their health problems.

    2. The guy who does put up the wire, and leases the land for 75 head of cattle came to my house yesterday and we had a long talk. His name is Ken Wooten, and he does work for the soil and water conservation district. I have his phone number.

    3. He claims that he has been putting barbed wire across the creek for 15 years and that when the creek floods it takes his fence down. He has to replace it 3-4 times per year. Also he has to use the creek to water his cows in the summer.

    4. I told him I had been kayaking Stouts for 25 years and had never seen a wire, and that as far as I knew no one else had seen any wire until the incident with Cody. He seemed very reluctant to accept this. He kept insisting I walk with him to see a tree where he had multiple old wires nailed (by my calculations that would be about 60 wires. I told him I couldn’t make the hike but that if it becomes major important that we could find someone in the club willing to do so.

    5. He has talked to Brian Parker, county prosecutor, and said Brian indicated that it was a slam dunk for him having the right to put barbed wire across. (I sent Brian several case studies which indicated just the opposite, and Bob Tucker may also have communicated this to him.) Hmmmmm)

    6. I suggested several solutions, all of which he rejected. For reasons unknown he was adamant that we should call him every time we are going to do Stouts….which I have no idea what that accomplishes, and I explained to him that he would be lucky to get any calls at all as it’s usually an on the spot decision, and many out-of-staters do this run.

    7. I kept emphasizing that since we’d only had 1 incident in 25 years, it must be rare for the fence to be up on the day we would be kayaking the river. I suggested we play it by ear and continue just as we have done with the caveat for Kayakers to be aware there COULD be a fence obstacle, especially if doing the river at minimum floatable levels.. Again he was less than happy with this, but did give us permission to land our kayaks and go thru his fence on land. Is this acceptable to the boating community?

    8. Bottom line. Mr Wooten is very well respected in Iron County, but that doesn’t guarantee we are getting the whole story. Without going into details there were several gaping holes in his story that he did a fair job of sidestepping. So I’d say we continue as is, the proof will be in what happens. The last people I talked to who’d done Stouts reported no fence. If we have a sudden increase in fence encounters then we may have to take action. If we have one incident every 25 years, that seems acceptable?

    • This topic was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  McChuck. Reason: Diplomacy isthe art of having someone else have your way.-Vare'
  • #15065

    crazyjerry
    Participant

    #2 has someone contacted the actual landowner to inform them that their leesee is breaking the law and endangering peoples lives?

    #4 has he offered to replace Cody’s drysuit?

    #5 have Mr. Wooten show these legal issues on paper for all to see and dispute

    #7 NO NO NO  refer to #5

    #8 NO –NOT ACCECTABLE -why would a near death encounter or possibly a deadly incident ever be acceptable because of his lack of knowledge of the LAW -have him contact agent Clayton Lewis with MDC. He should be thinking of fencing cattle out of the creek. How many cows washed away to flooding would he accept?

    sorry, had to rant

  • #15067

    Tim Gagnon
    Participant

    If you must keep cutting the wire due to his stubborn attitude, be sure to cut it into small sections so it can’t be restrung. If he has to keep replacing it, he may find a better way to water his cows

  • #15068

    John Tansil
    Participant

    Yes, there has been wire across Stout’s Creek at this location on more than one occasion. Several years prior to the “Cody incident” I was paddling with others (mostly canoeists?) and happened to be the lead paddler. I eddied out on river left, warned others of the hazard, and we all safely got around the obstruction.

    Ever since this episode, I am on FULL ALERT after passing Dayspring Bible Camp on river left. Barbed wire is a very hazardous strainer and the water is moving real fast here…. you will be eddying out in trees and brush with pinning possibilities!

    As far as the legalities of stringing barbed wire???? If you want your eyes to glaze over, here is what American Whitewater says about river access in Missouri:

    https://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Wiki/access:mo?

    …. And the court case determining “navigability” of Missouri streams:

    https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/supreme-court/1954/44247-0.html

     

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  John Tansil.
  • #15070

    McChuck
    Participant

    In thinking about this now for 24 hours what strikes me the most is Wooten’s inflexibility. He wants it done his way.period! Even when there are ways of pleasing everyone that are actually to his advantage. It’s a long stretch of wire and I would think replacing wire 3-4 times per year is a lot more labor intensive and expensive than simply rigging a way to pull the wire back when it is not needed.

    After this thought period I find myself favoring wire cutters.

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  McChuck. Reason: I want a man who is kind and understanding...is that too much to ask of a millionairre?-- Zsa Zsa Gabor
  • #15080

    chris
    Participant

    So, as some of you may know, I grew up in this area and actually know the people involved. I’m sure Ken Wooten is leasing the land as described, but the Wooten’s are related to the Henry’s (Ken’s wife’s maiden name is Henry) so it is a safe bet that Mr. Wooten will eventually be the owner of this land.

    Ken may be a bit stubborn on this issue, but his is truly a good guy. And, like Chuck said, this family is well-respected in the area.

    I’d encourage the club to develop a good relationship with this family. It may take time, but the end result will be better in the long run. Otherwise, we’ll be having these debates 25 years from now when Ken’s son owns the land. Who, by the way, still lives and farms on these lands.

    My 2 cents.

    -Chris

    OBTW, I found this green plastic boat looking thing in the back of my garage the other day. Anybody know what it is used for?

  • #15081

    McChuck
    Participant

    That green thing- is it used for making rolls?

    And as Chris said- if you drive down 72 from Ironton to 72 bridge- 3/4 of those people are related.

    Beta comes in= the current is fast just above the wires. There is not a clean take-out.

    Crawling under barbed wire has a high probability of damaging dry gear.

    I offered up many options that have a chance of working- he rejected, emphatically, every one.

    This “25 years from now”  opinion in no way applies to me. We need younger anarchists and socialists to pipe in. It is time for class equality!

     

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  McChuck. Reason: If we don't change our direction soon, we're bound to end up where we are going= prof irwin corey

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