Saint, Marble, Big Creek – next week

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    • #2371
      DaggerDan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 412

      Trying to see if anyone would want to plan ahead of time to catch Marble and Big Creek as they come back down Sunday-Tuesday depending the rain fall.  Its showing 1.85in Friday now. Also my month off work will start next week so I’m sure I’ll be camping at the Saint and having quite a few runs while having a forecast of 90s and sunny.

    • #2391
      ScottO
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 55

      love marble creek. never been on big creek. id like to check it out. i can be there sunday. may be down saturday as well. hopefully we have the water for them. i’ll PM you my number. you can call or text to set up times, places.

    • #2392
      DaggerDan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 412

      Awesome! Glad to hear, I’ve never done Marble so I’ve been wanting to check that out. I’ve only done the lower section from Sam A Baker to 34 Bridge where Big Creek flows into the St Francis so I’ve been wanting to do the upper section with the shut ins just for something different. My # is 573576 fifteen eleven

    • #2410
      Alan Peterson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 42

      Scotto,

      When you run Marble Creek, where do you put in, and where do you take out?

    • #2411
      DaggerDan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 412

      Im expecting to use the map for put in and out on americanwhitewater.org. Not sure if Scott does the same.

       

    • #2412
      BobTucker
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 41

      Have always wanted to do Marble. Would like to join in if I can, but way things looks may be too high this weekend.
      What is the rule of thumb on what Saint level is best to do Marble?

      • #2413
        Matt Worobec
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 56

        American Whitewater has info. I believe it says (5ft to 9 ft)two feet over to about six feet over bridge and Marble is good to go?
        So it may be good later tomorrow.

        • This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Matt Worobec.
    • #2418
      DaggerDan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 412

      Bob Ill let ya know when we go. You can text me on the # i posted above or ill update this thread.

    • #2419
      ScottO
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 55

      marble creek put in is at marble creek camp ground/rec area. take out is down a gravel road. dont know the name. mocreekin.com has info that should get you there.

      ive only run it once so i dont know about min/max levels.

      i would take a good look at the takeout and maybe hang something on a tree to identify it. its not the most obvious takeout if you arent familiar with it.

       

       

    • #2420
      ScottO
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 55

      just looked at the american WW map. looks correct. takeout on cr427. map is probably easier to decipher than the mocreekin words description.

    • #2423
      Steve Stilwell
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 87

      I have paddled Marble Creek only once, but absolutely loved it. It’s a very pretty place. However, there are potential issues with the takeout. The suggested takeout as well as a long stretch up and down river from there is on private property. You have to cross private land between the river and the road. And the land owners do not like paddlers trespassing! Also, there is not really anywhere to leave a vehicle because once you pull off the road you are on private property. My group had a shuttle driver timed to pick us up. With that said, I would love to go again!

      I know some others on here have more insight on the logistics.

    • #2424
      Ben
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 14

      The take out is on a gravel road (427) it’s a dead end. There are no “parking spots”, leave one vehicle and don’t block any entances. I’ve met some very nice people that live on that road. Others have had problems.  It’s great run!

    • #2426
      Alan Peterson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 42

      I asked where you put in and take out for a reason.  This may be a bit long, but…  The take out is on County Road 427.  CR 427 dead ends at a little gate made of metal pipes.  It is not locked.  It is about a 200 yard walk down a dirt road from the gate to the creek.  That 200 yard walk is across private property.  In years past, that private property was owned by an absentee landowner in Florida, Roger Boos.  This year, Roger sold all his land to Dwayne Ellis.  Dwayne is part owner of Ellis Battery in Cherokee Pass.  He lives in the great big new house you can see if you look to the left as you drive down CR 427 toward the take out.  Dwayne is a nice guy, and he doesn’t mind kayakers.  If you ask permission from Dwayne, I can’t believe he would say, “No.”  Now…  Here’s the sticky part…  The last canyon you paddle through before the take out is part of 60 acres owned by three families, the Judds, Petersons, and Hoods.  One of the Hoods, Kirk Hood, does not like people on the land or waters of the 60 acres, and he has been the source of conflict often mentioned when the subject of the take out arises.  The Hoods and Judds are also part owners of the last little house on the right, at the end of CR 427, and Kirk is often there on weekends.  Whether he has any legal authority to tell people they can’t park on the side of a County road (CR 427), or walk across land he does not own (Dwayne Ellis), he tries to tell people they can’t.  I know all of this because I am a Peterson and one of the part owners of the last canyon on the creek.  Kirk does not have authority to tell people they can’t park on the side of CR 427, and if permission is granted by Dwayne Ellis to take out at the gravel road and walk 200 yards to a vehicle, the only thing Kirk might be able to object to is paddling down Marble Creek through 60 acres owned, in part, by his family (actually, his mother).  Without a court determination of navigability, I don’t know if he has a right to deny floaters access to the creek.  I know he does not if they have permission to float through the sixty acres owned by the Judds, Petersons, and Hoods, if one of the families grant permission.  I grant you permission.  And he does not if Dwayne Ellis grants permission to take out and walk 200 yards across his property.  That permission is up to you.  I can’t grant that on behalf of Mr. Ellis.

      By the way, I also own the south side of Lower Rock Creek where it crosses Hwy E.  If anyone wants to run Lower Rock Creek and take out at Hwy. E, I grant that permission as well.  There’s not much parking space, but I own the dirt road next to the bridge (south side) and a car or two can park there.

      Alan Peterson

    • #2427
      Alan Peterson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 42

      By the way… Dwayne Ellis also owns the cattle pasture that Lower Rock Creek flows through between Hwy. E and the St. Francis River (the east side of Hwy. E).

    • #2428
      BobTucker
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 41

      Thank you very much Alan for taking the time to write this. Access to Marble Creek has long been the subject of discussion on this website and it is great to have this information, and your permission as a landowner. Whitewater paddlers are generally very considerate and respectful of landowner rights. The run on Marble, I am told, is a gem which is runnable only sporadically with just the right conditions. Hopefully, I will get to do that run someday!

    • #2429
      Alan Peterson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 42

      Also, I don’t know if Dwayne would permit it or not, but you might ask if you could go inside his pipe gate and park on his land. (He has been cutting some timber and there is a little opening to park 100 feet past his gate). If Dwayne gave permission to park there, that would solve the conflict about parking on the side of CR 427. A permission card left on the dashboard might minimize some problems.

    • #2430
      Alan Peterson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 42

      Bob,

      You’re welcome. In a couple years, after I retire, I may hit y’all up for some kayak lessons. I have two of ’em, but I never drummed up the guts to teach myself to roll.
      For those that have run Marble Creek in the past, in the last canyon of the run, on the 60 acres we own, you might remember the cabins we built on the creek. The first one lasted more than twenty years, until it washed away in the flood of ’93. The second cabin burned to the ground about six years ago.

    • #2431
      BobTucker
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 41

      When you are ready Alan you will find no shortage of skilled kayakers in the MWA willing to share their knowledge with you, including the annual spring clinic. As for me, I am part of a distinct minority of lowly whitewater canoeists (aka open boaters). Again, thanks for sharing this great information & history on Marble Creek.

    • #2432
      DaggerDan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 412

      Yes thank you very much Alan. Im not good enough at knowing what the gauge will show tomorrow for Marble but if its too high, big creek will for sure be good.

    • #2433
      BART GULSHEN
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6

      Open boaters are not lowly. This picture of a March day on Marble Creek defines us.

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/9gyw52e467m4bfr/swirlin%20rapid%20dale-1040195.jpg?dl=0

    • #2434
      BobTucker
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 41

      You are right. Awesome pic. Now I really want to paddle Marble!

    • #2435
      Alan Peterson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 42

      Much of my misspent youth involved canoes and Ozark rivers. Shoulda been kilt several times. Three or four times on Marble Creek.

    • #2436
      Alan Peterson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 42

      Blkbart,

      Is that near the campgrounds?

    • #2448
      DaggerDan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 412

      Well today was an awesome fathers day on the water. Scott and I went down Marble this morning then drove to Big Creek and got that one in too. About 12 miles of paddling. I really enjoyed the scenery at Marble. Beautiful place.

    • #2507
      WillPaddle
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 69

      Dan, since you paddled this recently, can you take a screen shot of a satellite picture over head of the take-out at Marble Creek and show me where you parked. I have been too spooked by previous versions of take-out stories. Thank You Alan P for all your kind words and helpful tips on this situation. You had commneted to me before when I had hiked Lower Rock Creek. Your offer to let people part on you land (if the paddle LRC) is very kind and helpful to us few kayaker who paddle in the area. It is greatly appreciated.

      Will

    • #2509
      DaggerDan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 412

      We left a car a minute or two walk down from the red pin in the pic, the road widens noticeably where another car can get past easily. The pic is where we walked up from the creek. Only like 30ft from creek to road and theres a little path there.

       

    • #2514
      Alan Peterson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 42

      Will,

      You’re welcome. Unfortunately, Lower Rock Creek really needs a lot of rain to be “floatable”. “Unfortunate”, because the scenery is great. There is not any sort of easily accessible put-in, but I am happy to let you access an easy take-out at Hwy. E.

      There are two potential take-outs for Marble Creek. When you get almost to the end of CR 427, there is a metal gate on the left (and one just across from it on the right). That metal gate is only 30 feet from the creek. That is on land owned by a young man named Ryan Dougherty. If you go another 75 yards past those two gates, CR 427 dead ends at a pipe gate. Everything past that gate, to the creek, is owned by Dwayne Ellis. The dirt road, continuing past the pipe gate to the creek, used to be county road as well, but the county quit maintaining anything past the gate many decades ago. I can’t give permission for anything at the take-out, but Dwayne Ellis certainly can. As I said, he is part owner of Ellis Battery in Cherokee Pass. You can’t miss his store. It’s right on Hwy. 67 across the street from the gas station (three miles south on Hwy. 67 from the intersection of 67 and E).

      Alan

    • #2615
      Dennis Jones
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 45

      Alan,

      You can’t be thanked enough for your generosity, Marble Creek is a true Missouri gem and deserves to be shared.

      Very sincerely,

      Dennis Jones

    • #2621
      DaggerDan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 412

      Well we got to experience Kirk today and his information that we were trespessing. He blocked us with his truck as we were heading down the gravel road and got out and explained we went down private property. Guess we got lucky last time and didn’t see anyone. He wasnt mean or anything, just threw out some scare tactics from coming back. May go talk to Mr. Ellis before I paddle it again.

    • #2637
      Alan Peterson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 42

      Sorry about Kirk. I assumed he would be there this weekend (holiday and all that). I encourage you to get permission from Dwayne Ellis. That gives you a place to park and a legal take out.

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