This topic contains 7 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  jw 2 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #8917

    jw
    Moderator

    We’re going to limit the definition of downriver boats to “standard” hulls & not have a special class for wildwater or v-type hulls.  This primarily applies the the >10′ K1 class, so boats like Dancers, Green Boats, Stingers & Mirages are fine.  Up to 4 meters long.

    Speeders & wavehoppers won’t be allowed in that class, and we don’t think there are enough of them to have a extra class.

    Hope this doesn’t cause anyone any inconvenience.

    If you decide to race a freestyle type boat in the K1<10′ class, please bring your headlamp.  Text us when you near the finish so we can walk over from the party to clock you in.

    – Your 50th MWC Race Committee.

  • #8928

    Bilbo
    Participant

    FYI, this is lateral to many downriver races in the region. The main exception to this involves 9″ division of length versus 10′. For extreme downriver (Green Race as the best example), the cutoff is 9′, because you will never see Speeders or Wildwater boats on the Green Narrows. For most “recreational” downriver races, 10′ has been used to be inclusive of many boats that people own over 9′, such as RPMs, Sleeks, etc.

    My personal thought on this is that if someone owns a wildwater boat, they most likely also own others that would fall into a more competitive thought, but I was not aware that a decision was made to “not allow” Speeders or Wavehoppers. I understand it, because it matches boats to assess paddler ability rather than boat ability, much like an International Race of Champions. Where I see the sub 9′ class involves the many creek/river running boats that are many paddlers’ only boat. I do not often see playboats under 7′ in a downriver race, but I throw it into the category of those who want a higher handicap. For our group I hope it is as successful of a change as other area races.

  • #8932

    McChuck
    Participant

    Wavehoppers and speeders both have V shaped bows which is a no go. Nor can you have a rudder or a keel (no sea kayaks or ultradistance racing kayaks- which I think I could use successfully). While having the skill to race the river in a true wildwater racing kayak is not to be found within our club (with a very possible time of 17 min and 31 secs) this will also eliminate the class entirely. I have no idea where these rules come from- maybe Max has a handle on this- but for now we will say these are our rules.

    If we were to race true wildwater boats, etc, I’d suggest the upper river for that. (In Durango’s downriver race they have whitewater kayak class, and anything goes class, with sea kayaks, ww boats, etc.) Lots of fun. (They were very surprised BTW when a certain gal from Missouri rented a kayak and won the race….LOL)

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  McChuck. Reason: If you and spouse are arguing over lid up or lid down, the best solution is one uses the sink
  • #8937

    jw
    Moderator

    Not sure what is meant by “lateral”.

    It was not so much a question of “not allowing” speeders & wave hoppers in the race.  We could allow them, but would need to add a class of “wildwater” boats, which we decided not to do because there might only be 1-2-3 boats in that class.  And remember, there has been groaning about “so many classes; everyone gets a medal”.  So we reduced classes this year.

    We can change that and create that class & allow those boats in the class, if there was enough interest.  (Small note – We may not have enough medals in case we add that class, but of course you are racing for the victory, not for the medal.)

    as far as the 10′ cutoff vs. a 9′ cutoff – we asked everyone last year after the races & the consensus seemed to be to put the cutoff at 10′.  We can also change that if the consensus has changed, although we’ll need to make sure that everyone understands we have made that change.  It seems like it would only affect the people who own a boat in the 9-10′ range, and would prefer to race against longer boats (where they have a disadvantage) or shorter boats (where they have an advantage).

    But hey – it’s your race – the committee is here to serve the community.  So speak up & we can consider a change.  Otherwise, it’s 10′ this year.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  jw.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  jw.
  • #8960

    Bilbo
    Participant

    Lateral simply means similar to other downriver races I have attended, entered into, or known about in the region in the last 5 years.

    The idea of 9 or 10 foot cutoff means a lot to the style of river we are racing on, because the Saint is pretty forgiving. Our area also has a lot of legacy kayak owners (the boats being legacy, not necessarily the owners) that range between 8 and 10 feet long. Any boat under 10 foot put up against a Dancer or Mirage would only give the paddler more exercise, so the 10 foot cutoff serves us really well. Surviving the rapids and winning in the flats has been ringing in my ears ever since I have met Chuck, so I see it as us just trying to be fair, have fun, and remain reasonably competitive. More than anything, I see the new cutoff as being inclusive of many boaters with “regular” boats that may want to think about entering downriver.

    Sorry to repeat this, but the 9 foot cutoff does not apply to our river, or our area paddlers and what they own. We do not have a high concentration of extreme “long class” downriver boats in the area. Also, if the 9 foot cutoff existed for us, I would have an advantage with a 9R at 8’11, as would a Jackson Zen or ZET Toro owner. These short extreme boats really do not have an advantage until the Saint gets high. Rather, the legacy, lighter and narrower river runners under 10 foot will.

    The only other class variances I have seen involved a region where there were a “lot” of Green Boats, Stingers and Jackson Karma Ultimates in the area, particularly the SE. A class was devoted to that particular extreme downriver genre. Another was like Chuck relayed, with sea kayaks, surf-skis, and crazy homebuilt composite boats up to 20 feet long.

    The Saint downriver changes every year there is a different water level, drastically. Low water success depends on route knowledge, stroke efficiency and endurance, and these talents create a lot of separation of run times compared to when there is higher water levels and fewer exposed rocks. There are no real “ringer” boats, only boaters who have banked all of the river memory and continue to train.
    Bill

  • #8978

    McChuck
    Participant

    Believe it or not- I agree with 95% of what is being said about downriver.

    While I seem cavalier about it al, if I had just one wish- it would be that we are all in the same boat. I really do hate the boat wars we go through every year.

     

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  McChuck. Reason: Bruggar! What is best about DR? Bruggar: To crush your competitors, see them far far behind you, and hear the lamentations of their wives
  • #8980

    jw
    Moderator

    okay, we can try, but I don’t think we’ll all fit in that one boat.

     

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 7 months ago by  jw. Reason: I know John Foster would have said that, so I beat him to the punch!
  • #8981

    jw
    Moderator

    maybe the first racer can paddle it to the finish, then shuttle it back to Fishermans for the 2nd racer to use, and so on.   We can start the Downriver at 8:00 am on Friday, and hopefully finish by the end of the weekend!

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