This topic contains 14 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Michael Goforth 3 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #5564

    Michael Goforth
    Participant

    Who was teaching an open boat session at Big Drop last weekend? A fellow boater and friend is laid up because of injuries sustained on the river due to a group neglecting to adhere to basic safety precautions and common sense/river etiquette…causing her to swim Big Drop and Cats Paw. I would like to hear the other side to this story.

    (edited)

  • #5567

    George
    Participant

    Heres the story: Rhonda and I were coming down from the put in and a group of open boaters were surfing a section before Big Drop. We waited for a great while for a signal from the group so we could pass. After waiting too long, I pushed my way through and hit the eddy river left. Rhonda then came down and an open boater came out in front of her causing her to tip.

    The injuries she earned were accrued throughout the day. However, the accident with the open boater set the tone for her the remainder of the trip. The incident did not cause her to swim big drop and cats paw.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by  George.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by  George.
  • #5569

    Michael Goforth
    Participant

    Thank you for clarifying, George.

    This topic has been waiting on the sidelines for discussion for too long. I’ve seen and experienced the same lack of safety/etiquette protocol since my return to MO.

  • #5572

    jacobsviper
    Participant

    Going through rickety rack race weekend sunday.. I would like to say that the open boater group that was going through and stopping to surf and enjoying the river  were awesome as we played leap frog the rest of the way taking turns and makin sure all was safe. 🙂 I myself have never been In a situation like they were in about not letting them through. but as im getting more familiar with the river ive seen how Ive  messed up in the past and barged through someones surf which is completly not what rhonda and george wanted to do but obviously had no choice…  I’ve litterally dropped into cats paw just to see someone coming out onto the surf at the eddy river right side close calls did it at the race too.. but I know now to wait And check both sides its kinda difficult but im still learning so if ya see me flying through my bad 🙂 as I like to blast through catspaw and hit the straight slide  boof as fast as I can its fun lol. Glad to know rhonda was ok 🙂

  • #5573

    MichaelDee
    Participant

    By last weekend, I’m not sure you mean yesterday and the day before or the first weekend of April. But I and a few others led a novice boater for his first trip through Millstream on Sunday, sharing the river from Big Drop through Rickety Rack with an ACA open boat instructor training group (which I think were dividing their course over the first and second weekend in April). We really enjoyed their company. We got to know them a bit because squall lines kept sweeping through, and we shared spots on the shore in two places to escape the lightning. They were accomplished and perfectly polite boaters.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by  MichaelDee.
  • #5575

    George
    Participant

    The boater knew he had made an error and helped Rhonda and I out. This particular issue was as significant as bumping carts at Walmart. Could it have been worse? Yes, but it wasnt. What really sucks about the whole thing is it has scared my Honey from boating.

    I have yet to really meet anyone on the river yet who is just a flat out asshole. In fact, every single person we’ve met has been friendly and helpful and we do our best to return the same gesture.

    The main point being: those coming down river have the right of way. I could not count the number of times a good line/run has been spoiled because someone has decided to stop and surf right in front of me or ferry while Im trying to pass through. Im sure everyone can relate to some extent. Maybe its time to start learning paddle signals.

  • #5584

    BobTucker
    Participant

    I know it was the weekend of the annual open boat whitewater clinic put on by Discovery Ministries out of Eminence. I wasn’t there and have no knowledge of this incident but I can say that this is generally a well-run clinic; Ronnie and the folks who lead it are veteran boaters and good guys. That said, they do often have a number of novice boaters so it’s not hard to see how a random mishap like this could occur. However, I don’t want to make an incorrect assumption on who it was. As we know, low water levels on a spring weekend can bring out a variety of boaters.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by  BobTucker.
  • #5589

    jon serfas
    Participant

    Ok, I wasn’t going to reply to this but now I feel like I should say something, since Ronnie’s group was mentioned. I was not a member of Ronnie’s class but did happen to jump in with them at the put-in. They were not the group involved, as we did not see any Kayaks until Double drop. Ronnie has been bringing groups for years. He is a very safe and considerate boater and does a very good job with his groups. There was another group of Open Boaters that were well ahead of us. I don’t know if the incident happened with their group or not. I do know their groups leader and he is also a very safe and conscientious boater. In fact, his class was a safety and rescue class.

    Since I was not there for the actual collision, all I want to contribute to this discussion is my annoyance at the manner in which it was brought up. From what I can tell the original author was not there either. He is calling out people for causing swims and injuries without the full story and broadly taking issue with the lack of etiquette and safety of local boaters on the Saint. My experience (over the last 15 year on the Saint) is that most regular, experienced boaters are very concerned with others safety and well being, on and off the River. I don’t know exactly what happened that day but it sounds like two less experienced boaters had an unfortunate, minor collision. That happens. we were all there once. I am sorry to hear Rhonda had a bad day on the river (especially sustaining injuries. Hope you’re OK) but I don’t think anyone needs to be publically called out for this incident, the way it was above. Even when George clarified, the original poster doubled down by, basically, calling out all Missouri Boaters. Not very cool. Should’ve realized something was amiss when the collision mentioned was said to cause a swim from well above Big Drop through Cat’s Paw @ 4″.

  • #5592

    BobTucker
    Participant

    Well said Jon. My bad on mentioning the DM clinic by name. I’ve had great times paddling with Ronnie, did their clinic one year, have safety boated for them and, obviously, totally agree with you on the quality of those folks. As you said, we’ve all been there. I’ve had my lines interrupted and, despite my best intentions, have no doubt done it to others at least a time or two over the years.

  • #5593

    deazle
    Participant

    Thanks Jon.  I was going to reply sooner but bit my tongue.  Somehow I knew you’d respond with better demeanor than I would.  Sounds like an “oops” moment.  “Paddlers” (for the sake of keeping it PC) tend to bunch up in the play spots before Big Drop to warm up.  I really hope Rhonda is okay.  It’d be a shame for this one incident to discourage her from such a wonderful sport.  Let’s face it, I’ve swam every inch of the St Francis and have become very intimate with a few of it’s rocks.  It’s gonna happen paddling Millstream at any water or skill level.   And knowing what to do in the event of a swim can lessen injury.  Not to assume Rhonda’s paddling skills, but perhaps participating in a clinic, where things can be slowed down in a teaching environment, with like skilled paddlers would restore a bit of faith in us MO paddlers.  BTW….I’m not mentioning any of this to my wife, as she’s actually taking the clinic this year and she already doesn’t like most of you “off” the river!!!! 🙂

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by  deazle.
  • #5595

    jacobsviper
    Participant

    As much as I flood this chat forum with my crazyness.. I have really learned ALOT from these experienced paddlers that have taken thier time away from having fun to teach me some different skills! I sadly report I cannot make this clinic 🙁 as much as the water level is going to rock this clinic im gonna have to pass. But I wanted to take this time since its a hot topic to give my thanks to everyone who has helped me this past year to learn as i know i need all the help I can get :-)soo thanks guys!!!

  • #5599

    Ben
    Participant

    Those pesky Mo open boaters are always cause’n problems, they’re nothing like us Iinois open boaters! Cant we all get along, this paddle’n stuff is supposed to be fun. Now group hug.

     

  • #5602

    George
    Participant

    I second Ben’s suggestion! Rhonda will be fine. Just bruises. I keep telling her its easier to atleast try to roll before goin for a swim, but that panic button always gets mashed immediately.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by  George.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by  George.
  • #5626

    Freddie Carter
    Participant

    River etiquette is an aquired aspect of paddling. Newer paddlers are not normally doing much surfing at constricted areas. Many times, it is hole hogs like myself, hoping they have the skills to just pass me by. I try to remember that the Downstream paddler ALWAYS has the right of way. My solution has been to just get soo far out in front, that I rarely encounter the Downstream paddler. I have been known to take out paddlers who fail to give the ROW… Butt, most of you know, I don’t always play well with others. I hope your Rhonda will keep plugging away at it. Most spots on the Saint there is no problem. Double Drop can be problematic. Love you all, and miss the fabulous paddling scene at the Saint ! Have a great clinic. Slim is my favorite Instructor… Get him if you can !! Not sure why, but I sorta miss Chris Kelly ….

  • #5656

    Michael Goforth
    Participant

    As anyone who knows me by now, I don not bite my tongue and encourage others to speak their peace regardless of the butt-hurt that gets handed down.

    As the story has been clarified after the original post was put up, I now understand that that the incident didn’t occur as it was conveyed to me.

    However, there is a problem with ‘paddlers’ not communicating and giving passage to downstream craft. I’ve had kayakers pull out in front of me countless times when I’ve entered rapids. Also, I try to give folks ample time to surf and play before making my way downstream only to have another boater clogging the hole w/o noticing what is happening upstream. It happens a lot and the primary reason why I felt this needed to be addressed….it is a safety issue; ‘experienced’ boaters need to be passing on and practicing these traits for the less experienced. The Saint is a small river and it can get terribly trafficked…all the more reason to be teaching basic river etiquette to improve everyone’s paddling experience.

    I’d rather hear about bruised egos than bruised bodies.

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